INTERVIEW: Gen Katsigazi talks about Police’s covert operations in fighting crime, what he brings on table as Deputy IGP

The Deputy Inspector General of Police, Maj Gen Geoffrey Tumusiime Katsigazi has expounded on the current security situation in Uganda, by explaining covert and clandestine operations conducted by police in fighting crimes.

Gen Katsigazi who was appointed DIGP on 25th January, 2022 made the submissions while appearing on BBS Terafayina’s popular current affairs show ‘Amaaso ku Ggwanga’ moderated by Steven Dunstan Busuulwa on Wednesday.

Before joining the Police Force, he was the deputy commander of the Ugandan air force, headquartered in Entebbe, after being discharged as Uganda’s liaison officer, at the EAC in Arusha, Tanzania for two years.

Before serving in that capacity, he was the chief of staff UPDF land forces in Bombo, for one year, after being posted to serve as the commander of the motorized infantry brigade in Nakasongola.

Gen Katsigazi was also deployed to Somalia to fight the insurgent Al-Shabab.

Here is the full interview:

Busuulwa: Will you be flexible enough to handle the work of the police? Will you manage the police since you’re from the army?

Gen Katsigazi: The two entities (police and the army) fall under the same docket, that is the defence docket. All we do is to protect a common man, that is what we are trained to do, much as the military takes on more complicated tasks, but we work together, even when I was in the military, I worked with the police, so its not new. So, the fact that they have appointed me, I  will be able to perform my duty effectively, much as the army is professionalized by more training from foreign security experts, but we are all the same.

Busuulwa: There are some complaints from concerned citizens that there is militarization of police, that the President has militarized the force and it irritates them. What do you have to say about that?

Gen Katsigazi: There is nothing wrong with that, like I told you, we have been working jointly to make sure that we protect citizens and their property, to safeguard peace of the people, but both the army and police do not have sufficient numbers.

So transfers and substitutions from the army to police and vice versa are intended by the President to fill security gaps using the same tactical people. Its not that he transfers officers from army to police alone. He also does transfers in other ministries and government agencies based on merit.

Busuulwa: What the President has not done is transferring from police to military like appointing some from police to the army to fight, lets say in Somalia. Is it because police personnels lack professionalism?

Gen Katsigazi: The President has spent a considerable period of time trying to build and professionalize the national army. Against this background, the army is more professional than officials from other government agencies.

Busuulwa: On your new position as deputy IGP, any Ugandan out there would like to understand what your roles and responsibilities are. What are your obligations?

Gen Katsigazi: I assist the IGP, in all his roles he is supposed to execute. Incase he is absent, I do what he is supposed to do, but other operations, I command operations, I lead operations in other police units in order to help my superior, the IGP.

Busuulwa: How do you explain the transfer of police officers. Like today, a DPC can be transferred from Kajjansi to Kisasi, DPC of Wakiso can be taken to Jinja road, who does that, and what are the parameters? What is the procedure, the criteria?

Gen Katsigazi : Transfer in forces is inevitable and indispensable. You must be flexible enough, work here, work there, there is no person who will operate from one place all the time.

Busuulwa: What of those who resist transfer?

Gen Katsigazi: He/she resigns, he nolonger wants to be shifted or can no longer work in a certain area.Thats insolence, and lack of respect for police rules and procedures, nothing else we can do to such a person, other than telling them to resign.

Busuulwa: What else does police do?

Gen Katsigazi: The role of the police is to protect a common man, to protect people and their property and extinguish, or curtail crime. Any police officer is charged with investigating the spectre of crime, to reduce criminality in his area of jurisdiction in cordination with the local people, in order to extinguish crime.

Busuulwa: In police, there are different uniforms, some are black, others in Khaki, others put on white caps, others black caps, what do these uniforms mean, and which category of officers wears them?

Gen Katsigazi: Those uniforms highlight the unit in police you work for. Police has several units in which various officers are confined and operate. Like those in Khaki are for general duties. They fall everwhere. In this case, you can carry out operations, you are flexible.

The black uniform is for those officers who fight terrorism, it is called CT, or counter terrorism police. You will see the “CT” label on the counter terrorism police uniforms. Those are counter terrorism officers. When a terror activity is suspected, those are the people who are sent to stablize the situation.

There is also the Field Force Unit (FFU), those who go to the field, those who counter riots, demonstrations. Those who wear white caps, as you all know those traffic officers.

Busuulwa: Do those units have specific commanders?

Gen Katsigazi: Yes

Busuulwa: How can one get absorbed into the police force? Is it just a matter of writing an application letter and take interviews to be able to be part of the police?

Gen Katsigazi: One must be a Ugandan, above 18, an S.6 leaver or a degree holder. Then when we advertise in the press, that we are recruiting into the force, you can bring your credentials, starting with Lc1 chairman letter, RDC, up to here, with a national ID, and we see what to do. It is a procedural process, you go through different levels, and you are promoted according on merit.

Busuulwa: According to the time you have spent as DIGP, what criminal cases have you handled mostly in the recent past?

Gen Katsigazi: Land cases on police level, and other cases like murder or theft.

Busuulwa: How do you trace cases around the country? There are some cases, instances in which some police officers involve themselves in crime. The other time, Mr. Fred Enanga (Police Spokesperson) told the country that some of your own had been arrested. How do you do such? Do you have a network that traces and investigates all police stations across the country?

Gen Katsigazi: We have a strong network. Everywhere almost in this country, we have a police post, so we get all this information, we coordinate with the common man and other goverment agencies and obtain all this information.

Busuulwa: Have you had instances where a person is captured on camera commiting a crime, but tracing them becomes difficult?

Gen Katsigazi: You have to look for the starting point to nab a criminal captured on camera. Not all of them are traced and captured, but we arrest a bigger percentage, through identification and assistance by our local informants. There are some who disappear completely, but 90% are apprehended.

Busuulwa: What is the current state of security on the northern bypass road? Some time back, the security situation on the northern bypass was very tense, there were many criminals, murderers, traffic lights were dim, cameras could not capture clearer images, so far what the state of security there?

Gen Katsigazi: Like you said, in the past months, the security situation on the northern bypass was not good at all, but police undertook several measures, and strengthened security there, in coordination with other agencies, we help each other, such that we eliminate crime on the roads and wherever it is pronounced. Nowadays, we have strengthened operations and established informants who monitor crime and inform us in case of anything and we respond rapidly.
Sometimes vehicles delay reaching at the scene but nowadays, we even introduced motocyles. We have distributed motorcycles to every nearby police stations. Our riders are on high alert. When we get any news of any happening, we send these motocycles like 4 or 5.

Busuulwa: Does police also pay for using Entebbe Express highway? By the time you make a stoppage at the toll gate to pay, wont the criminal have moved far away?

Gen Katsigazi: We pay, the responsible authorities ressolved that we should also pay. Parliament also refused, saying that whoever passes that gate has to pay and so we also pay.
We are in talks with the ministry of works, such that we are allowed to pass our vehicles at the gate without paying.

Busuulwa: What you have to say on those who steal registration number plates from vehicles. There are those notorious criminals, who after spotting your car in a parking lot, remove the number plate and leave a note on a vehicle with a phone number, to which you are supposed to send money and recover your number plate.

Gen Katsigazi: We are trying to solve this by strengthening our coordination with the local people when someone out there leaves such information , when it happens to anyone, let them do like you did. Dont send money, bring that number to the police, we have mechanisms to look for that person. Dont give him money. When you do so, they will keep coming, my message to all Ugandans is dont accept to be intimidated and be forced to send money to such criminals. Use that chance and bring information to police such that we track and arrest those people.

Busulwa: Is police bond still free of charge?

Gen Katsigazi: Police bond is free of charge, from the the onset, it has been free, though there are some people who infiltrate the police and use it to cheat citizens, but now our public relations officer has spent time telling people not to pay because bond is free. Dont pay money, bond is free, it is not that for every case you have to get bond.

Busuulwa: There is a certain mode of robbery, that has manifested itself among car mechanics in different parts of the city like “Wakiseka”, as you are driving, they dupe you into believing that you vehicle has a mechanical problem, for example problem with tyres, they stop you, replace you good tyres with fake ones, on top of charging you large amounts of money. Have you heard such kind of robbery?

Katsigazi: I normally hear that criminality, but wonder why people dont report to police. They complain from there, but dont report to us, and we think we know those who commit robbery. If we know them, why dont we take them to police?

Busuulwa: What category of individuals in the country have right of way?

Gen Katsigazi: The President of the state, ambulance, have right of way others have to stop when these vehicles are passing. Mainly those and fire brigade ,anything urgent. But there are some people who want to manouvre and have the right of way. I will talk to my traffic men and we see what to do to such people.

Busuulwa: There are certain types of guns (pistols) that are possesed by local people/ civilians. People who are not security officers. How can one secure a fire arm, because other people misuse them. In some instances, some people are stopped by traffic officers for certain reasons, but they pull out a pistol and threaten officers, such an irresponsible behaviour among some citizens.
What are the procedures for one to secure such a gun and how should one use it?

Gen Katsigazi: There are some people, who misuse fire arms, but when we discover, we will take it away from them. Those who threaten others. If it is a common man, that pistol is for protection, not threatening people. It should not be exposed to public, it should be pulled out incase one’s security is threatened, those who threaten other people, report them, and we will work on them.

Busuulwa: Like if you are asked, there are those in possession of private fire arms, is there a certain law which stipulates that someone has to be a responsible person, according to procedure?

Gen Katsigazi: First, one has to go through the Lc1 committee up to the district level. There, you are endorsed basing on your character, if you are a person of integrity, without a criminal record. After applying, they can be allowed possession of the fire arm, but the application must go to the IGD, who will in turn write to the minister of internal affairs for endorsement.
Its the minister who endorses that you should have a gun, but there are conditions, the way how you use it, its the most important thing. You use it for protecting, not threatening other people. Its not for going with to the bar, or expose it and start drinking alcohol. If you get it and its misused, we take it away from you.

Busuulwa: Which police unit is responsible for such issues? Incase you perceive you security situation to be under threat.

Gen Katsigazi: You write to the IGP, he gives the final decision.